Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Cheryl Roshak on April 26, 2012 at 4:08am

Since I am not a man, I have no comparison as to how a man experiences loneliness the way I feel loneliness when I feel it. And I have no clue what a man experiences in the sexual act when he lies in the womb of a woman, as Nin puts it. Not sure what she means by "But for woman, the climax is not in the birth, but in the moment man rests inside of her." Not sure how that relates to loneliness. I think she means that is completion, wholeness or something or another. But that can only be momentary. One does not live connected that way to another all the time. Only for a moment can you share that intimacy.

Wholeness comes from within a person, whether male or female, for we are each unique individuals and you can't look outside yourself for fulfillment or completion, but one must look inward to find one's value, one's worth, one's self. Only by truly loving yourself, call it self love, can you be free of the need for the other to complete you. Being lonely at times is one thing. Loneliness is another thing all together. In the end we will each be alone in that final moment.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gatzby on April 26, 2012 at 4:23am

A priest once taught me the difference between loneliness and solitude. It remains the greatest gift any one has ever thought to give me. I will, however, disagree with you Cheryl on one small account. I believe that intimacy is something that can last forever, even when the one you love is gone. The woman that I loved and the only friend that I ever had passed away last year and I still know her embrace. I always will. The joy and appreciation of that intimacy is not in the least bit lessened.

I dont believe that it is a matter of man vs woman in the realm of loneliness. What one makes of being alone is up to the individual. I see both men and women subject themselves to doomed, miserable relationships so as not to be alone. The simple fact is this - loneliness is the renouncement of self. Solitude is the celebration of self. Man and woman are both every bit as capable of failing or achieving in this regard.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Cheryl Roshak on April 26, 2012 at 4:57am

I understand where you are coming from, Gatzby, and in the greater sense of things, I do agree with you that intimacy can last forever. I lost my husband when I was 35 and there are somethings that never leave you, that will be forever locked away in your heart to re-experience whenever you wish.

I do think Nin was speaking however on a more prurient level of what happens in real time. And that moment of orgasm only exists when it occurs. As you one can't re-experience physical pain in the mind, it's a scientific fact, I tend to think that physical moment of orgasm experienced between two people in the moment can't also be recreated by the mind. The memory of the feeling of togetherness or being loved by someone can, I think. But I fear we are splitting hairs here. My point was that Nin was talking on a visceral level in time, which is why we repeat certain things or acts to recapture the feeling that is fleeting. Otherwise having done it once would suffice for life, don't you think?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Glenn S Dorfman on April 26, 2012 at 6:33am

Gatzby, I think you are quite right that intimacy can last forever. Thank you for this wonderful addition to this discussion.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Glenn S Dorfman on April 26, 2012 at 6:43am

Cheryl, thank you for your thinking on this Nin writing. She was, in my opinion, a person of enormous complexity and resiliency. After all these years, I am still not sure what to make of her save that she loved to slap tradition in the face for the sake of emotional living. She seems to have lived on the margin of impossibility for reasons that I do not understand, yet.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gatzby on April 26, 2012 at 6:52am

thank you kind sir. i am grateful for the opportunity to share with you all.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Johanna Mackey on April 27, 2012 at 1:50am

wow.  Nin's diary passage can be interpreted in layers -- so how on earth do people communicate when one sits upon one layer and another approaches from of a completely different layer?  (egads, language is complicated!)  i only recognize the paradox -- man and woman are the same even as different.  (Michealangelo brought clarity for me there -- that giant "eureka!" -- referenced by his sketches).  and Gatzby (hi Sir!) ... on the definitions of the priests? -- well, those kindly and meek scholars have always impressed their wisdom and knowledge deep within my soul.  i really liked the clarifiication between lonliness and solitude.  even as words can become mumbled at times (or jumbled?), that kind of crystal-clear simplicity works for me.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Trish Crew on April 28, 2012 at 11:54pm

Certainly, this is a poetic way to see things, and something not politically correct. It resonates with me. I think I understand the way a woman might see things, as the one who brings forth man. This is the Hebrew Scriptures way of seeing women, as mothers of sons (daughters not counted.) In my life, making love has been a strange and sometimes wonderful thing. So, I understand the image of fulfillment not as climax, but as in the being together. There is always the old canard that men want intercourse and women want touching. Anais Nin would disagree with this, I think. As for loneliness, I think both of us have the capacity for crushing loneliness that all the busyness in the world can erase it.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Trish Crew on April 28, 2012 at 11:56pm

I think you're right, Cheryl. I'm glad it wasn't designed to be once for all time!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Trish Crew on April 29, 2012 at 12:03am

Gatzby, I never heard that, "loneliness is the renouncement of self. Solitude is the celebration of self." That is quite moving. I have occasionally felt lonely and when that was true, I was abandoning myself the way I was accusing others of abandoning me. I think I have learned not to do this now.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Glenn S Dorfman on April 29, 2012 at 12:05am

Johanna, thinking about interpreting Nin's work in layers is important because she was so multi-dimensional, and complex. Thanks for your excellent thinking.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Glenn S Dorfman on April 29, 2012 at 12:11am

Trish, the fact that you were able to apply Nin's lessons to your own life would have made her proud. She was, after all, a groundbreaking woman of enormous talent and spirit. I also agree and appreciate your view of modern loneliness, that it is a shared malady across the sexes. Men are simpler to understand emotionally than women making you all much more interesting.

• ▶ Reply

▶ Reply to Discussion

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• …
• 5
• Next ›
• Page